572 pointsLike some sort of WPMU DEV God"I'm helpful
David
Member
—
6th April 2011 (1 year ago)
I'm a lucky guy, because I have access to a dedicated Linux server that's powerful and honkin' complete with a 64-bit CentOS kernel and 8GB of physical RAM.
Unfortunately, it's also proving to be challenging to setup and get working (CentOS and SELinux are making me crazy, Webmin doesn't know of either, and I've got ssh command-line access only). If I configure anything on it incorrectly, there's pretty much no going back.
So, I'm considering using a hosting provider on a VPS. I have three separate WordPress installs, each with multiple sites. I must be able to run my own plug-ins, along with some special-purpose Perl scripts, and some other random crap. Monthly traffic across the sites is around 100K visits, except for occasional peaks.
I'm a little baffled by some of the specs of hosting providers, including things like 512MB of virtual machine RAM. On my Windows machine now (which is what I'm moving from), I'm consuming all 2GB of RAM, but it seems a lot of WordPress sites are happy in 512MB or less. Not sure how to think about that.
The other thing I'm not sure about is the trade-off on VPS offerings between those with CPanel-like interfaces and those that give you a straight Linux command prompt. I like to think I'm Linux-savvy, in that decades ago, I did some UNIX kernel coding. But the fact is, that was UNIX and it was decades ago, so I'm probably not as savvy as I'd like to think.
So my question there is this: can I get enough power and control with a hosting provider without delving substantially into hand-configuring my own Linux conf files?
Beyond that, budget and performance are always issues. Can you recommend a reliable provider who won't pull the rug out from under at the worst possible time because MySQL is doing queries or I get Slashdotted, and also doesn't cost a mint?
I'm a lucky guy, because I have access to a dedicated Linux server that's powerful and honkin' complete with a 64-bit CentOS kernel and 8GB of physical RAM.
Unfortunately, it's also proving to be challenging to setup and get working (CentOS and SELinux are making me crazy, Webmin doesn't know of either, and I've got ssh command-line access only). If I configure anything on it incorrectly, there's pretty much no going back.
So, I'm considering using a hosting provider on a VPS. I have three separate WordPress installs, each with multiple sites. I must be able to run my own plug-ins, along with some special-purpose Perl scripts, and some other random crap. Monthly traffic across the sites is around 100K visits, except for occasional peaks.
I'm a little baffled by some of the specs of hosting providers, including things like 512MB of virtual machine RAM. On my Windows machine now (which is what I'm moving from), I'm consuming all 2GB of RAM, but it seems a lot of WordPress sites are happy in 512MB or less. Not sure how to think about that.
The other thing I'm not sure about is the trade-off on VPS offerings between those with CPanel-like interfaces and those that give you a straight Linux command prompt. I like to think I'm Linux-savvy, in that decades ago, I did some UNIX kernel coding. But the fact is, that was UNIX and it was decades ago, so I'm probably not as savvy as I'd like to think.
So my question there is this: can I get enough power and control with a hosting provider without delving substantially into hand-configuring my own Linux conf files?
Beyond that, budget and performance are always issues. Can you recommend a reliable provider who won't pull the rug out from under at the worst possible time because MySQL is doing queries or I get Slashdotted, and also doesn't cost a mint?
9603 pointsLike some sort of WPMU DEV GodMindblowingly helpful memberLifetime member
Sales & Support Pro
—
6th April 2011 (1 year ago)
#
Hiya David,
When it comes to getting slashdotted take a look at VPS.net.
Their cloud VPS solutions allows you to upgrade and downgrade your server with extra resources in minutes, and even schedule those.
You have completely control over your server and they also provide managed services which can come in very handy. There are also choices for which flavour of Linux you go for and control panel.
I have a VPS site which hosts about 5 separate WP installations, 3 of them are Multisites.
I'm consuming all 2GB of RAM, but it seems a lot of WordPress sites are happy in 512MB or less. Not sure how to think about that.
If you need all that, then you should have more in there to give it a good buffer. Those installs using 64mb, 128mb, etc, etc will most likely have simpler themes and fewer plugins thus requiring less resources.
So my question there is this: can I get enough power and control with a hosting provider without delving substantially into hand-configuring my own Linux conf files?
Yes and no, depends on their service and what they offer, pre-configuration, etc. also comes down to managed vs self managed.
We only use dedicated servers hosted in UK datacentres, so I can't comment to much services from others but I find a resourceful website is Webhosting Talk, you'll find reviews, offers and more:
Wow, Kloxo looked perfect until I read the installation instructions. Sadly, it only supports 32-bit installs and the machine I've got access to has a 64-bit install of CentOS. Ugh.
Thanks, Tim. I saw that, but that's actually part of my original concern. There are three or four different, hacky ways to partially or fully configure a tool like Kloxo. But there's a ton of steps, each might be hacky, and there's no guarantee that anything will be solid or compatible.
I have the skills to follow the instructions and make it work, but I'm concerned that _what_ I make work may not be good enough for production work. That, in a nutshell, is what worries me about every modern Linux install -- it's all very hacky and one mistake could be bad. I'm sure to make at least one mistake.
Have you contemplated hiring a system admin to take a look and get it sorted for you. I know there are a few companies now that work solely to offer these types of services. Perhaps whom ever look after the hosting of your server might be able to assist?
Nope, it's gotta be all me, baby. Both because of cost and because almost everything running on it is highly custom code I've written. And, frankly, I'm not convinced anyone else (other than those who wrote the hacks -- if even them) could know about the potential side effects of a Kloxo-like admin tool dropping, say, the wrong config because it didn't know better.
Actually, that's a concern I've got with hosting providers, too (especially, the small, vertical ones). They may get their configs up and running, but who's to say they really know much more about what's going on under the covers of some package they've downloaded? Admittedly, they may have a few hundred installs and develop some empirical data, but I think that's why we often see problems with our hosting providers as well.
Anyway, this wasn't meant to be a rant about hosting or Linux, but just about how do get a solid system set up for production work.
can I get enough power and control with a hosting provider without delving substantially into hand-configuring my own Linux conf files?
I'm a big believer that control panels like cPanel can help with system administration and management. There's nothing wrong with putting a GUI on something instead of making someone delve into hand-editing config files. Other people might argue that control panels add too much overhead, and that can be a valid argument depending on your resources.
But, you still may have to get "down and dirty" in the server.
Tim brings up a good recommendation with Kloxo. We use HyperVM, another product from the same initiative, and it's rock-solid (despite what it went through a while back). But one reason we like cPanel is the support. Although not perfect, cPanel support is very knowledgeable and very good at identifying problems, which can range from actual cPanel bugs to various other things that can plague a system. The support you'll get from an open source product like Kloxo can be good too, but for us cPanel support is worth the money. If you're running cPanel on a VPS, don't forget that you can get a VPS license for much less than a regular server license.
But one thing strikes me in general from your query: It would be a shame NOT to use a nice dedicated server over a few technical questions. Tim is also on track with his suggestion to hire an admin. I'm not sure what issues you're having, but the things you mentioned shouldn't be deal breakers. Do you have access to restore the operating system?
As for cloud VPS hosting, I feel strongly that cloud hosting can add a layer of complexity that often takes away from reliability and performance. We've tested some cloud providers in the past, and the results backed up this theory. If you go with cloud hosting, be sure to check the status updates and tweets about the provider in question. Scalability is good, but it depends on whether the price is worth it. Don't forget that many people use cloud hosting to keep from incurring the cost of a dedicated server. But if you already have a dedicated server, it would be a shame to then pay for cloud hosting just to achieve the potential scalability...when you have a dedicated server at your disposal.
And don't forget that cloud hosting isn't the only VPS solution that can offer scalability. Some traditional VPS solutions can still offer a certain amount of scalability (moving to a larger RAM or disc space plan without interruption).
Can you recommend a reliable provider who won't pull the rug out from under at the worst possible time because MySQL is doing queries or I get Slashdotted, and also doesn't cost a mint?
I guess it wouldn't be proper etiquette to recommend ourselves. ;-) However, to be honest, in your case I'd suggest that the best thing is to find a way to utilize that dedicated server. Instead of trying to sell you something else, I'd point out that you already have a solution which can give optimal results if you can just work out a few items.
Hmm... I guess I didn't realize cPanel was available for single-server purchase. It's a little expensive, but I think that might be the way to go. I need to check with them to see if there's any way to install without having a physical boot disk (my server is halfway across the country), but it might be the way to go.
I've been very happy with a managed VPS from futurehosting.com. They have excellent 24/7 support and have helped me with quite a lot of the server config etc. Very high value for the money. Choose your data center and setup. I have a 64bit CentOS set up with them. When I have a need or a problem, I open a ticket and they deal with it.
I haven't been crushed with traffic (yet) but as far as I know they don't have anything like Phil is describing. But the price and service are fantastic.
Responses (12)
Sales & Support Pro — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Hiya David,
When it comes to getting slashdotted take a look at VPS.net.
Their cloud VPS solutions allows you to upgrade and downgrade your server with extra resources in minutes, and even schedule those.
You have completely control over your server and they also provide managed services which can come in very handy. There are also choices for which flavour of Linux you go for and control panel.
I have a VPS site which hosts about 5 separate WP installations, 3 of them are Multisites.
Phil
Support Chimp — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Take a peek at a free and open source control panel:
http://www.lxcenter.org/software/kloxo/
Previously known as lxadmin.
If you need all that, then you should have more in there to give it a good buffer. Those installs using 64mb, 128mb, etc, etc will most likely have simpler themes and fewer plugins thus requiring less resources.
Yes and no, depends on their service and what they offer, pre-configuration, etc. also comes down to managed vs self managed.
We only use dedicated servers hosted in UK datacentres, so I can't comment to much services from others but I find a resourceful website is Webhosting Talk, you'll find reviews, offers and more:
http://webhostingtalk.com
Member — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Wow, Kloxo looked perfect until I read the installation instructions. Sadly, it only supports 32-bit installs and the machine I've got access to has a 64-bit install of CentOS. Ugh.
Support Chimp — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
http://wiki.lxcenter.org/Kloxo-64
Member — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Thanks, Tim. I saw that, but that's actually part of my original concern. There are three or four different, hacky ways to partially or fully configure a tool like Kloxo. But there's a ton of steps, each might be hacky, and there's no guarantee that anything will be solid or compatible.
I have the skills to follow the instructions and make it work, but I'm concerned that _what_ I make work may not be good enough for production work. That, in a nutshell, is what worries me about every modern Linux install -- it's all very hacky and one mistake could be bad. I'm sure to make at least one mistake.
Support Chimp — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Have you contemplated hiring a system admin to take a look and get it sorted for you. I know there are a few companies now that work solely to offer these types of services. Perhaps whom ever look after the hosting of your server might be able to assist?
Member — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Nope, it's gotta be all me, baby. Both because of cost and because almost everything running on it is highly custom code I've written. And, frankly, I'm not convinced anyone else (other than those who wrote the hacks -- if even them) could know about the potential side effects of a Kloxo-like admin tool dropping, say, the wrong config because it didn't know better.
Actually, that's a concern I've got with hosting providers, too (especially, the small, vertical ones). They may get their configs up and running, but who's to say they really know much more about what's going on under the covers of some package they've downloaded? Admittedly, they may have a few hundred installs and develop some empirical data, but I think that's why we often see problems with our hosting providers as well.
Anyway, this wasn't meant to be a rant about hosting or Linux, but just about how do get a solid system set up for production work.
Lifetime member! — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
I'm a big believer that control panels like cPanel can help with system administration and management. There's nothing wrong with putting a GUI on something instead of making someone delve into hand-editing config files. Other people might argue that control panels add too much overhead, and that can be a valid argument depending on your resources.
But, you still may have to get "down and dirty" in the server.
Tim brings up a good recommendation with Kloxo. We use HyperVM, another product from the same initiative, and it's rock-solid (despite what it went through a while back). But one reason we like cPanel is the support. Although not perfect, cPanel support is very knowledgeable and very good at identifying problems, which can range from actual cPanel bugs to various other things that can plague a system. The support you'll get from an open source product like Kloxo can be good too, but for us cPanel support is worth the money. If you're running cPanel on a VPS, don't forget that you can get a VPS license for much less than a regular server license.
But one thing strikes me in general from your query: It would be a shame NOT to use a nice dedicated server over a few technical questions. Tim is also on track with his suggestion to hire an admin. I'm not sure what issues you're having, but the things you mentioned shouldn't be deal breakers. Do you have access to restore the operating system?
As for cloud VPS hosting, I feel strongly that cloud hosting can add a layer of complexity that often takes away from reliability and performance. We've tested some cloud providers in the past, and the results backed up this theory. If you go with cloud hosting, be sure to check the status updates and tweets about the provider in question. Scalability is good, but it depends on whether the price is worth it. Don't forget that many people use cloud hosting to keep from incurring the cost of a dedicated server. But if you already have a dedicated server, it would be a shame to then pay for cloud hosting just to achieve the potential scalability...when you have a dedicated server at your disposal.
And don't forget that cloud hosting isn't the only VPS solution that can offer scalability. Some traditional VPS solutions can still offer a certain amount of scalability (moving to a larger RAM or disc space plan without interruption).
I guess it wouldn't be proper etiquette to recommend ourselves. ;-) However, to be honest, in your case I'd suggest that the best thing is to find a way to utilize that dedicated server. Instead of trying to sell you something else, I'd point out that you already have a solution which can give optimal results if you can just work out a few items.
Hope this helps.
Mark
Support Chimp — 6th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Amen to to that!
We swear by cPanel/WHM and it also works well with various billing and invoicing softwares available.
The other thing I love about cPanel as Mark mentioned is support, there is so much out there before you even get to the main companies website.
That said, there is nothing wrong with open source solutions like Kloxo.
Member — 7th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
Hmm... I guess I didn't realize cPanel was available for single-server purchase. It's a little expensive, but I think that might be the way to go. I need to check with them to see if there's any way to install without having a physical boot disk (my server is halfway across the country), but it might be the way to go.
Interesting, indeed. Thanks.
Support Chimp — 7th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
If you are going the cPanel rout and want to pay monthly then shop around. I'm not endorsing any of these but start:
http://www.cpanel.net/apps/partners/partner-lookup.cgi?showall=1&distonly=1
Member — 7th April 2011 (1 year ago) #
I've been very happy with a managed VPS from futurehosting.com. They have excellent 24/7 support and have helped me with quite a lot of the server config etc. Very high value for the money. Choose your data center and setup. I have a 64bit CentOS set up with them. When I have a need or a problem, I open a ticket and they deal with it.
I haven't been crushed with traffic (yet) but as far as I know they don't have anything like Phil is describing. But the price and service are fantastic.
Become a member