No problem at all Dr Mike. I'm here and are listening just not necessarily talking much :) . Must be due to lack of chocolate brides.
Currently all tied up with creating support material for WPMU 2.8.2 blogs users and then I'm guessing back onto installation documentation for the mu-plugins.
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I have no thoughts. I was engaged. Mind is a complete blank. Oooommmmmm....
Have to admit that I'm with James and against the auto updater. Takes the thought about testing, reviewing and trying out current plugins and coding first out of the question. Highly against it.
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May be didn't found an answer, but I looked for it, sorry in case of duplicate.
A social network WPMU+BP based need documentation and "hot to use" for end user, like in Edublogs, for example http://help.edublogs.org/getting-started-with-edublogs/ .
There is something unbranded or that it's possible to modify, with a proper license in manner to utilize it as base for specific site?
Video in this site are great, but need also text and images documentation, also in order to translate it.
We're happy for you to "repost onto your site from Edublogs Help & Support (http://help.edublogs.org/getting-started-with-edublogs/) to help your users" but would appreciate it if you added attribution at the bottom of each post or page you copy onto your site with the following:
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Thanks a lot, Sue, this is a big present for many users, I believe :)
A documentation clear and useful like yours, it's a real help and don't oblige to reinvent the wheel.
Of course, attribution is a must and I'll be happy to add it to all support pages that will use your work.
Could you define a license to release it? something like CC http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en or GPL?
And, only to avoid mistakes, when you say "adapt the content" you mean that it's possible also to rebrand PDFs, specifying the same attribution?
In any case, my compliments for your high ability to explain things and make it understandable, for sure you are a great communicator :)
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Sue, you may want to also cover the images. Under what license are those provided under and suggest to folks that if they're usable, download them and host them yourself so we don;t kill your bandwidth.
If you use the content from Edublogs Help and Support we request that you:
1. Attribute the content as specified in the license and include attribution in any material you place online or PDFs you create.
2. Download any images you use to your computer so that you can host them on your site. We would prefer you don't link to our images.
Please note that this license applies only to Edublogs Help and Support. You also need to be aware that features on Edublogs may not be the same on your site or apply.
It does not apply to content on The Edublogger (http://theedublogger.com/). The Edublogger remains copyright and material from that blog requires permission to use.
Did I miss anything Dr Mike and Marco? And don't forget to send the chocolates :)
PS thanks Marco for the nice words. I try to make my instructions as easy to follow as possible. Please let me know if you ever spot any edits needed.
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I hate to be a pain but I feel that you can't do Noncommerical in the US on a WPMu install. Since accounts are being distributed out to endusers, that's providing a service which under US law would make it commercial, even if the accounts are for free. There's a fair amount of case law on this.
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As for me, Sue, this is perfect and I very much appreciate it and repeat I'm sure that this will be useful for many users.
For sure I'll use your documentation for 99% as is (because we'll opening site on 28th february, in 3 days) but my need it's also to translate it in other three languages in the next weeks and this is why I suggested that license, because I think to release under it.
May be we can cooperate to build a base ready-to-customize, in four language (english, spanish, french, italian), that can be used in our and other sites? just a thought :)
I don't know US laws, I think to build a subdomain of main site with Help & Support and use it with attribution and changing mainly only refers to sites, from Edublogs to mine site, servers are in Germany, company is in GB but TLD is .com, so if there are some problems with US laws and you or Mike can investigate, should be a great hand.
In any case, this is a good step forward ;)
Thanks again a lot :)
@ Sue, weren't customary compliments, I really appreciate your work because I know perfectly how hard it is to explain in plain language, things that for many people ar like arab :)
A shortened version of how my (Just to clarify, she's UK and I would think she would be basing such with that knowledge) attorney explained it is if that you're providing a service to a third party and if you could be sued for providing such a service, it's a business. Any money changing hands would not be taken into account as "payment in trade" and free services do operate as businesses.
I know we encourage out Elgg, WPMu and open Drupal installs to operate as such and most of them are licensed.
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I'm sorry, Mike, but I don't believe that this can be defined as "providing a service" if not, no one license could be free.
Releasing a copyrighted work under a license that clearly define freedom and attribution limits I believe that solve completely the problem and cut the direct relationship between creator/work/user that a providing service need.
I'm not an attorney, but if things don't works in this manner, nobody can share works in free licensed mode.
Thanks and Dr Mike is totally correct. Thanks for reminding me. I'm so used to using Non-commercial with material for educators I did it automatically.
I've now changed it to ShareAlike.
I like the idea of the versions in different languages but wondering how we might manage it. Perhaps we could get those that are translating into the different languages to add the link to their site here?
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I like the idea of the versions in different languages but wondering how we might manage it. Perhaps we could get those that are translating into the different languages to add the link to their site here?
An unbranded, multilanguage user guide, need a repository, so why not here?
By now I'm busy to open social network, but in some weeks I can dedicate some resource to this work.
May be you can arrange an unbranded version in english and I (and may be other interested in it) think to translations? From English to Italian (by me) French (?) and Spanish (?) and perhaps other language/users adding.
In that case, each language can have its own translator/attribution, may be in a credit page in this site?
Something like "Documentation and english version by Sue Waters, wpmudev.org, Italian translation by.... French translation by... and so on)
Only thoughts here and there... :)
Sorry have been thinking about it and I like the idea of the different versions.
However, just a clarification when you say "May be you can arrange an unbranded version in English and I (and may be other interested in it) think to translations? " are you meaning:
1) A version that is available on another site separate from Edublogs Help & Support and if so in what format?
2) or do you mean the unbranded version is from Edublogs Help & Support?
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Hi Sue,
version in Edublogs it's good, but it's Edublogged :) with many references and images.
Of course, this is good and useful, but if we want make something that could be useful and immediately usable by other webmasters, should be better to have a version not strictly connected with Edublogs and without its logos.
Of course, this not affect copyrights, that you can attribute to yourself, Edublogs, WPMUDEV or to whom you want, but only content.
In short, a "clean" version of Edublogs Help & Support or something similar, may be available in this site like unbranded movies, for example.
In this manner should be easy to translate and customize for specific sites, maintaining intact license and attributions, of course.
In this case, I believe that other non english speakers webmasters should be interested to this material and might be also to cooperate on translation, adding new foreign languages.
What's about?
Hi Marco, yes I can understand why users would like a clean version of Edublogs Help & Support available and it is something that has been discussed previously.
Trouble is that there is a lot of work involved in preparing this type of documentation and then maintaining it to keep current. Also as Dr Mike points out variations inside that dashboard makes it even more challenging.
Ultimately it would be James and Andrew's decision based on the amount of interest by users and taking into account other work priorities.
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Ok, Sue, I understand perfectly and agree with your thoughts.
In case this project will become something realistic, I'm available to help, as proposed.
Thanks a lot
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No offense to Andrew or James but we've suggested doing a trac for the 100 theme package a couple of times and they've chosen not to. I think they feel it would pull them away from other projects.
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No offense taken at all :) Now we've got some more people working with us we're hoping that we'll be able to provide much more pro-active and - generally - better support to the packs... starting with a new one... next week (crosses fingers and toes!)
Responses (28)
Member (joined May 2009) Likes (0)
Thanks James,
The link doesn't work, it has a quote (") in the end ;)
Founder & CEO (joined May 2007) Likes (0)
Bloody bbPress :)
http://wpmu.org/need-wordpress-mu-support-here%E2%80%99s-where-you%E2%80%99ll-find-it/
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
Thanks Sue where ever you are.
+1 for a doc on converting an wpmu install into one based on SVN. :)
Support Guru (joined March 2009) Likes (0)
No problem at all Dr Mike. I'm here and are listening just not necessarily talking much :) . Must be due to lack of chocolate brides.
Currently all tied up with creating support material for WPMU 2.8.2 blogs users and then I'm guessing back onto installation documentation for the mu-plugins.
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
Not a problem. Just a thought. See so many folks struggling with the auto updater so it was just a thought.
Support Guru (joined March 2009) Likes (0)
Well I was thinking of writing a quick post for wpmu.org about upgrading now there is the auto updater. Your thoughts?
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
I have no thoughts. I was engaged. Mind is a complete blank. Oooommmmmm....
Have to admit that I'm with James and against the auto updater. Takes the thought about testing, reviewing and trying out current plugins and coding first out of the question. Highly against it.
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
May be didn't found an answer, but I looked for it, sorry in case of duplicate.
A social network WPMU+BP based need documentation and "hot to use" for end user, like in Edublogs, for example http://help.edublogs.org/getting-started-with-edublogs/ .
There is something unbranded or that it's possible to modify, with a proper license in manner to utilize it as base for specific site?
Video in this site are great, but need also text and images documentation, also in order to translate it.
Erstwhile founder (joined May 2007) Likes (0)
Hiya,
A couple of people have already asked about the material on help.edublogs.org. At the moment we have no plans to license the content on that site.
Thanks,
Andrew
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
The problem with licensing material like that is every install is different so what I do on mine is different from what another admin does on theirs.
And just to be a pain, wp.com used to license their help material as CC-Attribute but they pulled that.
edit: And archive.org is today's sex/porn site here at the library. Nice....
Support Guru (joined March 2009) Likes (0)
I've discussed this with James since we have started letting some people use some of the material (for example, http://wpmu.org/by-request-farms-100-big-ones-theme-pack-review-for-your-help-site/).
So here's what's been decided,
We're happy for you to "repost onto your site from Edublogs Help & Support (http://help.edublogs.org/getting-started-with-edublogs/) to help your users" but would appreciate it if you added attribution at the bottom of each post or page you copy onto your site with the following:
or if you adapt the content then use this:
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
Thanks a lot, Sue, this is a big present for many users, I believe :)
A documentation clear and useful like yours, it's a real help and don't oblige to reinvent the wheel.
Of course, attribution is a must and I'll be happy to add it to all support pages that will use your work.
Could you define a license to release it? something like CC http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en or GPL?
And, only to avoid mistakes, when you say "adapt the content" you mean that it's possible also to rebrand PDFs, specifying the same attribution?
In any case, my compliments for your high ability to explain things and make it understandable, for sure you are a great communicator :)
Thanks,
Marco
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
Sue, you may want to also cover the images. Under what license are those provided under and suggest to folks that if they're usable, download them and host them yourself so we don;t kill your bandwidth.
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
Yes, Mike, good specification
Support Guru (joined March 2009) Likes (0)
Sorry for the delays in responding but we've been thinking about the best option.
I've now added the following Creative Commons licenses http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/ to Edublogs Help & Support to cover both text and images. You can see it displayed at the bottom of the page here - http://help.edublogs.org/getting-started-with-edublogs/
If you use the content from Edublogs Help and Support we request that you:
1. Attribute the content as specified in the license and include attribution in any material you place online or PDFs you create.
2. Download any images you use to your computer so that you can host them on your site. We would prefer you don't link to our images.
Please note that this license applies only to Edublogs Help and Support. You also need to be aware that features on Edublogs may not be the same on your site or apply.
It does not apply to content on The Edublogger (http://theedublogger.com/). The Edublogger remains copyright and material from that blog requires permission to use.
Did I miss anything Dr Mike and Marco? And don't forget to send the chocolates :)
PS thanks Marco for the nice words. I try to make my instructions as easy to follow as possible. Please let me know if you ever spot any edits needed.
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
I hate to be a pain but I feel that you can't do Noncommerical in the US on a WPMu install. Since accounts are being distributed out to endusers, that's providing a service which under US law would make it commercial, even if the accounts are for free. There's a fair amount of case law on this.
Ain't copyright fun?
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
As for me, Sue, this is perfect and I very much appreciate it and repeat I'm sure that this will be useful for many users.
For sure I'll use your documentation for 99% as is (because we'll opening site on 28th february, in 3 days) but my need it's also to translate it in other three languages in the next weeks and this is why I suggested that license, because I think to release under it.
May be we can cooperate to build a base ready-to-customize, in four language (english, spanish, french, italian), that can be used in our and other sites? just a thought :)
I don't know US laws, I think to build a subdomain of main site with Help & Support and use it with attribution and changing mainly only refers to sites, from Edublogs to mine site, servers are in Germany, company is in GB but TLD is .com, so if there are some problems with US laws and you or Mike can investigate, should be a great hand.
In any case, this is a good step forward ;)
Thanks again a lot :)
@ Sue, weren't customary compliments, I really appreciate your work because I know perfectly how hard it is to explain in plain language, things that for many people ar like arab :)
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
Yes, thanks Sue.
I need to do my afternoon relocation but a quick google pulls up this as a non-US checklist on if you;re operating a business:
http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.asp?doc=/content/00150830.htm
A shortened version of how my (Just to clarify, she's UK and I would think she would be basing such with that knowledge) attorney explained it is if that you're providing a service to a third party and if you could be sued for providing such a service, it's a business. Any money changing hands would not be taken into account as "payment in trade" and free services do operate as businesses.
I know we encourage out Elgg, WPMu and open Drupal installs to operate as such and most of them are licensed.
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
I'm sorry, Mike, but I don't believe that this can be defined as "providing a service" if not, no one license could be free.
Releasing a copyrighted work under a license that clearly define freedom and attribution limits I believe that solve completely the problem and cut the direct relationship between creator/work/user that a providing service need.
I'm not an attorney, but if things don't works in this manner, nobody can share works in free licensed mode.
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
Actually I mean "providing a service" between you and your endusers, not with you and Sue.
If you;re offering blogs or sites to folks, you're providing a service to them.
Support Guru (joined March 2009) Likes (0)
Thanks and Dr Mike is totally correct. Thanks for reminding me. I'm so used to using Non-commercial with material for educators I did it automatically.
I've now changed it to ShareAlike.
I like the idea of the versions in different languages but wondering how we might manage it. Perhaps we could get those that are translating into the different languages to add the link to their site here?
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
An unbranded, multilanguage user guide, need a repository, so why not here?
By now I'm busy to open social network, but in some weeks I can dedicate some resource to this work.
May be you can arrange an unbranded version in english and I (and may be other interested in it) think to translations? From English to Italian (by me) French (?) and Spanish (?) and perhaps other language/users adding.
In that case, each language can have its own translator/attribution, may be in a credit page in this site?
Something like "Documentation and english version by Sue Waters, wpmudev.org, Italian translation by.... French translation by... and so on)
Only thoughts here and there... :)
Support Guru (joined March 2009) Likes (0)
Hi Marco,
Sorry have been thinking about it and I like the idea of the different versions.
However, just a clarification when you say "May be you can arrange an unbranded version in English and I (and may be other interested in it) think to translations? " are you meaning:
1) A version that is available on another site separate from Edublogs Help & Support and if so in what format?
2) or do you mean the unbranded version is from Edublogs Help & Support?
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
Hi Sue,
version in Edublogs it's good, but it's Edublogged :) with many references and images.
Of course, this is good and useful, but if we want make something that could be useful and immediately usable by other webmasters, should be better to have a version not strictly connected with Edublogs and without its logos.
Of course, this not affect copyrights, that you can attribute to yourself, Edublogs, WPMUDEV or to whom you want, but only content.
In short, a "clean" version of Edublogs Help & Support or something similar, may be available in this site like unbranded movies, for example.
In this manner should be easy to translate and customize for specific sites, maintaining intact license and attributions, of course.
In this case, I believe that other non english speakers webmasters should be interested to this material and might be also to cooperate on translation, adding new foreign languages.
What's about?
Support Guru (joined March 2009) Likes (0)
Hi Marco, yes I can understand why users would like a clean version of Edublogs Help & Support available and it is something that has been discussed previously.
Trouble is that there is a lot of work involved in preparing this type of documentation and then maintaining it to keep current. Also as Dr Mike points out variations inside that dashboard makes it even more challenging.
Ultimately it would be James and Andrew's decision based on the amount of interest by users and taking into account other work priorities.
Member (joined February 2010) Likes (0)
Ok, Sue, I understand perfectly and agree with your thoughts.
In case this project will become something realistic, I'm available to help, as proposed.
Thanks a lot
Keeper of the Dark Chocolate (joined July 2007) Likes (0)
No offense to Andrew or James but we've suggested doing a trac for the 100 theme package a couple of times and they've chosen not to. I think they feel it would pull them away from other projects.
Founder & CEO (joined May 2007) Likes (0)
No offense taken at all :) Now we've got some more people working with us we're hoping that we'll be able to provide much more pro-active and - generally - better support to the packs... starting with a new one... next week (crosses fingers and toes!)
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