Difference between builder and upfront and two bugs?

Howdy :wink:

I have finally started to make sense of upfront and I do like it a lot. So I am humming along building my template in builder when I realize that the preview in my browser window looks different then in the builder. Line thickness settings and background color changes do not get picked up by the preview. Yes, I reloaded the page fully and cleaned cache. I then had the idea to open upfront (not builder) through the preview window and voila, changes made in upfront updated just fine.

1) My questions are, how can I learn more about the difference between the builder template and the upfront composer on a technical level? At which stage in the design process should I switch from the builder to upfront? Is it that once I open a template in upfront all content does get copied into upfront and changes to the template have no effect anymore?

2) A region background image does not resize (scale) when switching screen size or resizing the Browser Window and yes, I turned the option on.

3) A contact form in a light box does not send name and email address of sender but only the contents of the message field.

Thank you very much for your help :slight_smile:

  • Rupok

    Hi Rico,

    Thanks for asking. Let me describe one by one.

    Regarding your Upfront and Builder query, let me tell you the basic difference first.

    Suppose you are creating a regular WordPress theme. So what should you do? You will be designing layout/template files. Like Single Post layout, Single Page layout, category archive layout etc. You will use your custom design, pictures, elements to design those layouts. And when you export that theme, all your changes will be shipped with your theme. That means, anyone activating your theme will get the same design you created for your layouts. In Upfront, you do this part with Builder.

    Now suppose, you have downloaded and activated that regular WordPress theme. Now you create pages, posts etc. with your content like text, images etc. Even you can modify your pages/posts with custom CSS code or JS code. But all these changes are your site specific. That means, all these changes are stored in your site database, these changes are not attached with your theme. So if you activate this theme on another site, your customization won't be there. In Upfront, you do this with Editor.

    So the basic different is, with Builder, you create/design layouts/templates for your theme development, it doesn't have anything to do with content. But with Upfront Editor, you basically create/develop content for your site. It doesn't have anything to do with theme design/development.

    Now, regarding your changes to the template query, it's kind of (not exactly) like WordPress regular theme child themes. Suppose, you have a theme with a header image on post archive page. Now you need to remove that header image. You can simply create a child theme and remove that header image from archive template. Your child theme is your site specific and will always override the default theme layout unless a major change is there in the header design coding. So if your parent theme has any changes, those won't be reflected because child theme will be overriding that. Kind of in this way, when you override template design with Upfront Editor, those changes overrides your theme template layout. So changes in templates still gets overridden with changes made in the Editor. But if you export that theme and install on another where (where no overriding is happening), your layout changes will be reflected.

    Regarding your region background image issue, are you referring to Upfront Editor or Upfront Builder? I'm assuming Builder. In that case, I tried to regenerate this on my test site but I could not. I created a region in Builder, added an image background and enabled "auto-resize" option. Then checked that layout in front-end but the image was responsive. I've created a video screencast showing this: http://take.ms/hYv2P
    Can you please check this and confirm? Please let us know if I'm missing something.

    Regarding the contact form issue, I could regenerate this on my test site also. So I'm reporting this to our developer right now. I believe, they will come up with a solution soon.

    Please keep in mind, our developers work round the clock and they have to deal with lots of critical issues and other things. So it may take a little while for them to check this and release a fix. I appreciate your patience.

    Please let us know if you have any confusion regarding anything above. We will be glad to help further.

    Have a nice day. Cheers!
    Rupok

  • Rico

    Dear Rupok,

    1) thank you for your very thorough reply. I really appreciate it and I think I do get the difference. I will have fun playing with this.

    2) Background not resizing: I did it in my own, newly created builder theme and it does not work as expected or as shown in your screen cast. I do think this is a bug or maybe just happens on my installation. However, since I will have to create many pages for templates I will now take the Parrot theme and modify it in builder to suit my needs for the multiple sites I have. I will let you know should this behavior re occur.

    3) Am I correct thinking that I can use another form plugin or short code etc. instead of the included forms until this issue has been fixed?

    Thank you Rupok, very happy to be part of such a great community.

  • Nithin

    Hi Rico,

    Hope you are doing good today. :slight_smile:

    2) Background not resizing: I did it in my own, newly created builder theme and it does not work as expected or as shown in your screen cast. I do think this is a bug or maybe just happens on my installation. However, since I will have to create many pages for templates I will now take the Parrot theme and modify it in builder to suit my needs for the multiple sites I have. I will let you know should this behavior re occur.

    I just tested this in my system, and it does seem to work fine. Please do let us know if you are able to replicate this again, so that we could give a closer look, and see what I'm missing.

    3) Am I correct thinking that I can use another form plugin or short code etc. instead of the included forms until this issue has been fixed?

    Yes, you can make use of any contact form plugins until the bug is fixed. You could try Contact Form 7 plugin. Once configured, you can add the plugin shortcode, by making use of Widget element, and select Text widget.

    Another, related challenge. I did delete all regions on my home layout by mistake and can't figure out how to create the first region again when no regions are on the page.

    It looks like the support access is disabled, so I wasn't able to check your current settings. But looking at the website in the frontend, you still have menu region, and a header region in your theme. Aren't you able to create a new region from that?

    Even when no regions are present, Upfront will show a link to create a new region.

    If you still have issues, please enable support access, so that we could guide you better. You can grant access from WPMU DEV > Support > Support Access > Grant Access, or check this manual: http://premium.wpmudev.org/manuals/wpmu-dev-dashboard-enabling-staff-login/

    Please let us know once you enable access, so that we could get this sorted. Have a nice day. :slight_smile:

    Kind Regards,
    Nithin

  • Rico

    Hi Nithin, thanks for caring :slight_smile:

    I have enabled support access now. It is a multi user site and I am currently working on the My Charter Yacht Site. The theme I have is called MCY. I had trouble renaming and updating the info too until I activated another theme first.

    I can see what you are saying that the regions show in the front end, they don't show in Builder though. So I now have deleted everything in upfront and now have the "Click here to add a region" in upfront but not in Builder. I wanted to modify the template a bit more and will start a new theme. BTW, how do I duplicate themes? Download and upload?

  • Rupok

    Hi Rico,

    Thanks for granting Support Access. I've logged in and found the issue on your site. However, I've created a new "TestTwo" theme on your site with Upfront Builder and on that theme, I can see the "Click Here to add a region" button. So I think, the issue is in your "MCY" theme.

    As you are planning to start a new theme, I believe this issue won't be there. And for duplicating themes created with builder, you can download the theme and upload again in a new folder. That should do.

    Please let us know if you have any further inquiry. We will be glad to help.

    Have a nice day. Cheers!
    Rupok

  • Rico

    Thank you Rupok, I have created a new theme already.

    I need one more point clarified though. If I use a theme I have created in Builder and open it in Upfront. Does the theme then get's copied and changes in Builder will not be visible in Upfront (and vice versa). Is that correct?

    I changed a logo in Builder and was thinking that this change would happen in Upfront too but it didn't. If the above is incorrect could you please let me know which changes will populate and which will not?

    Thank you for your patience Rupok.

  • Nithin

    Hi Rico,

    If I use a theme I have created in Builder and open it in Upfront. Does the theme then get's copied and changes in Builder will not be visible in Upfront (and vice versa). Is that correct?

    If you try to make use of Upfront Builder, and Upfront Editor, the changes made via the Upfront Builder won't be visible when you try to edit the theme via Upfront Builder. The Builder, and the Editor both are different, and you'll only have to make use of Editor once you have finished developing your theme using Upfront Builder fully.

    Upfront Editor will try to override the changes made via the Builder if you try to load both simultaneously, you can remove the changes made via Upfront Editor, under Upfront > General > RESET THEME.

    Please do note resetting the theme, will delete all the changes made through Upfront Editor.

    You don't have to make use of Upfront Editor, and Upfront Builder simultaneously. Upfront Builder is meant to develop a theme from scratch, ie changes made with builder are distributable, and everything is contained within your theme directory. For eg Fixer theme is build using Upfront Builder. The members downloads the theme, and customizes it using Upfront Editor. Upfront Editor is meant for front end users, and Upfront Builder for developing themes.

    I changed a logo in Builder and was thinking that this change would happen in Upfront too but it didn't.

    I don't get it, you meant that the changed logo doesn't appear in the frontend? The changed logo should appear in the front end, please check whether you still have issues even after resetting the theme?

    If you still have problem changing the logo, could you please enable support access, so that we could give a closer look. You can grant access from WPMU DEV > Support > Support Access > Grant Access, or check this manual: http://premium.wpmudev.org/manuals/wpmu-dev-dashboard-enabling-staff-login/

    Please let us know once you enable access, so that we could get this sorted. Have a nice day. :slight_smile:

    Kind Regards,
    Nithin

  • Nithin

    Hi Rico,

    Yes. I changed the logo in the theme in Builder and thought it would change in the front end as well. It did not. I had to change it in editor separately.

    Sorry to know that you got the site overwritten. :slight_frown: The changes made through Builder should have being reflected in the fronted, please let us know once you get your site up running, we would be glad to give a closer look at these. Have a great ahead. :slight_smile:

    Kind Regards,
    Nithin