downloadable products

Can I enable downloadable products with this plugin? Using Paypal Express that is?

  • Timothy Bowers

    MarketPress does not currently support IPN or Downaloadable Products.

    You posted in the MarketPress category.

    If you are referring to the membership plugin (Because you are not entirely clear) then to quote from a quick search:

    DavidM:

    it uses a subscription based model where if payment isn't receive for a subscription level that requires payment, the subscription is removed from that member along with whatever membership levels were attached to it.

    The system doesn't remove accounts itself, but technically it can be considered as suspending an account when a subscription fails to renew because a payment isn't made.

    And Barry:

    When an subscription ends (expires) or is cancelled via PayPal then the levels and subscriptions are removed and the user effectively becomes a stranger.
    If the user initiates a chargeback or disputes a payment via PayPal then the account is deactivated so they can't log-in to the account. The subscription information remains though so that once the dispute is resolved they can be re-activated by the admin user if wanted / required.

    Obviously if they don't have an active membership they won't be able to access the downloads.

  • Loggy

    Dave

    The problem with eStore and eMember is that the licence is not appropriate. Each client would need a licence at $49.95 or $69.95 for both which becomes rather expensive.

    It is not as if IPN is difficult to implement - I did it on a simple site in very little time and it worked just fine. I have implemented a WorldPay interface before and that was much more complex. All you need for IPN is to check the return call which has a randomised order, send it back to PP and PP will send a Confirmed message back if the order is correct. I think it also includes a nonce to ensure only one return is required but it doesn't need https (particularly useful in shared hosting).

    Thanks for your help though - Paypal Framework looks good and supports IPN but it doesn't have the shop facilities that MarketPress has... Maybe integrating with Shopp Improved but does this support Multisites?

  • Timothy Bowers

    @WorldWeb

    Do you know if it allows for one site to list all products from sub sites like MarketPress? Does it support chained payments?

    The problem with eStore and eMember is that the licence is not appropriate.

    Is it a stand along product, I thought in simple terms that when plugins rely on a GPL product they must be licensed accordingly? Are they restricting the use of the code then?

  • Loggy

    No. GPL doesn't mean that you can use it wherever you want just that the source is open, you are free to modify it and stuff. There are two different versions - GPL2 which is pro-developer and GPL3 which is pro-end user. GPL2 allows the developer to be more restrictive so they can licence a product to you. In principle I guess they could restrict it to one site. There are legal issues and it has never been tested in court and anyway under which jurisdiction would this apply....

    Because of the structure of Wordpress, all source must be open (well you can see it if you have shell access anyway). It is difficult to see how else it would work unless compiled modules were allowed and then there would be all sorts of difficulties as people run very different configurations. But the licence restriction on TipsandTricks allows you to use it only on your sites. So if you are running a service where you are managing other people's sites, it won't work. And I am not sure whether eStore and eMember work with Multisites as well.

    There are a number of other web shop plugins - Zingiri looks interesting and includes Paypal IPN so can be used for downloadable products. But I haven't tried it out and again I don't know whether it will work in a Multisite environment.

    Ideally MarketPress will be upgraded soon - it is not as if IPN is a new approach as it has been around for quite a few years AFAIK.

  • Timothy Bowers

    Because of the structure of Wordpress, all source must be open (well you can see it if you have shell access anyway).

    You don't need shell to see source code, just a text editor.

    I'll quote directly from the GPL, I just wonder what your interpretation of it is:

    When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price.

    Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you can do these things.

    To protect your rights, we need to make restrictions that forbid anyone to deny you these rights or to ask you to surrender the rights. These restrictions translate to certain responsibilities for you if you distribute copies of the software, or if you modify it.

    if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.

    We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free program will individually obtain patent licenses, in effect making the program proprietary. To prevent this, we have made it clear that any patent must be licensed for everyone’s free use or not licensed at all.

    1. You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program’s source code as you receive it, in any medium, provided that you conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty; keep intact all the notices that refer to this License and to the absence of any warranty; and give any other recipients of the Program a copy of this License along with the Program. You may charge a fee for the physical act of transferring a copy, and you may at your option offer warranty protection in exchange for a fee.

    2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

    It then goes on to state about modified works:

    These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works.

    Can these plugins be considered independent and separate works?

    Full GPL versions:

    http://wordpress.org/about/gpl/ - GPL2.

    http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html - Same but from the GNU.

    Just wondering your take on all that?

  • Loggy

    Aaron

    So if MP's Paypal gateway uses IPN already it is just that MP hadn't included the facility to interrogate the payment categories immediately and return the customer to a download page if the payment is confirmed. (Chargebacks are always a problem of course!).

    Presumably Downloadable products is either part of MP or something that works with MP.... And this will cope with the many return statuses...:slight_smile:

    I see additional gateways are in the pipeline - are any of these with a more European flavour? Paypal has a bad reputation over here (UK) of closing people's accounts without reason (therefore always clear your PP account out every night!).

  • Loggy

    Aaron

    So if MP's Paypal gateway uses IPN already it is just that MP hadn't included the facility to interrogate the payment categories immediately and return the customer to a download page if the payment is confirmed. (Chargebacks are always a problem of course!).

    Presumably Downloadable products is either part of MP or something that works with MP.... And this will cope with the many return statuses...:slight_smile:

    I see additional gateways are in the pipeline - are any of these with a more European flavour? Paypal has a bad reputation over here (UK) of closing people's accounts without reason (therefore always clear your PP account out every night!).

  • Timothy Bowers

    @Aaron

    Market press Paypal gateways do use ipn. Not sure why that would matter to you though.

    Ah sorry, I misunderstood that part of the plugin. I wrongly assumed it didn't but of course it must for tracking customer payments for the account status. Doh!

    I'm slowly learning all the plugins here though! :slight_smile:

    @Loggy

    I see additional gateways are in the pipeline - are any of these with a more European flavour? Paypal has a bad reputation over here (UK) of closing people's accounts without reason (therefore always clear your PP account out every night!).

    Do they? We have two separate accounts with them for well over 5 years and have never had issues (One is about 10 year old I think, or around that mark).

    Surely there must be reason unless its a technical issue?

    As with any company dealing with thousands upon thousands of customers things will go wrong for a few, perhaps those whom experienced this were some of the unlucky few?

    Out of interest who do you recommend for people in the UK and Europe?

    We mainly use Paypal and Google Checkout whilst also allowing direct business bank transfer.

  • Loggy

    @Tim

    I heard this via a friend who has contacts in the UK's Financial Services Authority. She always clears her account out every night.

    The problem is with jurisdiction and how you complain if things go wrong. It may be extremely rare but if you've go thousands of pounds in an account, the last thing you want is for a non-domiciled non-bank to freeze your account.

    Everything else on the internet can be from anywhere in the world but I would always use critical services from the my own jurisdiction - hosting, payment systems etc. So if there is a problem at least I am familiar with how to tackle things. Even in the EU it can be a nightmare and in some ways more difficult than dealing with the US.

    I don't know which PSP to recommend - I haven't enough experience there I'm afraid - but I guess like many I would be interested to hear of experiences. I have dealt with WorldPay before and they are rather expensive and the PayPal integration was far easier.

  • Timothy Bowers

    WorldPay is expensive I used them about 8 or 9 years ago for a project and we didn't stick with them long because of cost.

    I thought Paypal had to abide by legislation of the countries they work in and have a base of operations registered and trading from the EU.

    PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A is duly licenced as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier, with registered office in L-1150 Luxembourg.

    Kind of scary though that they could just close accounts down, surely they must provide your funding back unless it is part of an investigation into fraud or similar?

    I use to use NoChex and never really had a problem, it just didn't seem popular enough at the time and was hardly used as a choice by clients.

    Anyone else got recommendations on this? (preferred payment services)

  • Loggy

    I've never had any problem with PP either but then I never have any money in my account. The trouble is PP is judge, jury and executioner based either in Luxembourg or the US or Singapore and you really have no appeal without spending thousands of Euros, dollars or pounds on lawyers. It is such a popular system (presumably because 100*(1-10^(-6))% of the time it works) that people forget the problems until it hits them. I hope it doesn't but better safe than sorry - keep the money elsewhere.

    Like eBay who will suspend an account if there is a sniff of negative feedback which may well be unwarranted, such organisations have the power to make or break you. My friend heard of a case where they froze an account with £8k in it for 6 months. That may be chicken feed to some but not to others. Meanwhile a viable business goes to the wall with no compensation. That is all hearsay I know and regular banks in the UK are bad enough! But if you use a system in your own jurisdiction, at least you can go and scream at them if it makes you feel better and take legal action through a system that you are familiar with.

    Or a big dog, 12 bore and a large mattress is what we need. Anyone fancy doing a gateway for that?

    Dunno how this thread got so much off topic! My fault I guess - sorry all! :slight_smile:

  • Loggy

    @Tim

    Yeah - I know eBay owns Paypal. Pareto's law gone mad I think....

    And eBay is just a market place - it isn't an auction site anyway but it is

    repeat {bid} until {time run out}

    rather than

    repeat {bid} until {no more bids}

    so anyone who wants to buy uses sniping software like jBidwatcher which eBay hate but can't do much about....:slight_smile: I don't know whether you track your sales but the clue is when someone 'wins' with a bid 15 seconds before the end, never having bid before. Bidding just puts the price up.

    Maybe I'm just a grump these days! Don't get me started on Facebook privacy!!!!

  • Loggy

    Yeah - jbidwatcher enable you to enter your maximum bid which of course is racked back by EB but it doesn't enter it until the last moment. Then of course the gamble is whether someone else is also lurking and has entered a snipe a few seconds after yours but maybe with latency delays etc that one won't get through! You have to take a risk on that one.

    JBW syncs to EB so the clocks should be the same and you can also multisnipe so if >1 person is selling something but you only want one of them, you may not succeed with the first one (eg your max may be too low) but maybe with the second or third and then it will stop. Really cool.

    There are other auction sites that don't have a fixed end but stop when there has been no bid for so many seconds - or minutes, That's more like a proper auction. eBay is just happy to receive all your insertion fees and a slice of the cake then of course PayPal takes another slice of the cake. Aren't they happy bunnies!

    So I only buy things on eBay - never had much success trying to sell!

    FB - well it is really annoying how they didn't want to put up some privacy controls and you either select someone to see and get all their drivellings or you don't see them - why not make it the last few only - click here to see more? Then there was the Openbook site (I think it's taken down now) which used FB's APIs and you could just type in a name and you could find out everything about the folk who don't understand that the default privacy was - hey no privacy! Mugs maybe but still an invasion I think.

    They've added groups now but even that is not properly done IMNVHO. But FB is useful and a very good marketing took - I hope 'cos I intend using it shortly!

    Hopefully while we are threading, Aaron and co are sorting the downloadable products issue with MarketPress.....:slight_smile:

  • Timothy Bowers

    erm..... I'm an e-bay sniper, lol. I'm a bargain hunter.

    I recently sold some Wii games on there and got all the money back we paid for them about a year before.

    I also bought a garage on their for £25 and sold it back on there for £110. Its all about timing (when their listings end at irregular times), taking advantage of misspellings (that other buyers miss, thus less bids) and collection only items which also get fewer interest thus less bidders. :slight_smile:

    I use to hate Facebook! Still annoys me but I'm almost a pro on there now. We have pages with some an accumulated 10,000+ followers my personal profile has around another 3,500 friends.

    They've always had groups but the new FB group thing is annoying but a great way to advertise to people because it e-mails all members for every posts unless they change it after being added. A little spammy though and could annoy people. Not a tactic we currently use to be honest.

    Can't wait for the new MarketPress as well!!

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