How do I change the "in-country / EU / international" to something more suitable?

Hi,

My client (based in Germany) is a fashion designer. He charges shipping differently for customers from:

1) EU countries
2) Non-EU european countries
2) North America

Also, for orders > 90 EUR shipping is free for everyone.

This plugin seems to provide enough flexibility to do the job (correct me if I'm wrong), but it's not available anymore (403).

In my opinion such functionality should be there by default because the current in-country / EU / international division is pretty much useless given the complex nature of e-commerce reality and a whole world of variety in business relationships (unless you happen to run your business exactly as the devs think everybody does).

Does anyone have this plugin? Or is there any other known way of acheiving such a basic change? Besides having someone do it, naturally, which I could and will do if necessary, but "There´s a WPMU DEV plugin for everything my clients can dream up", right Julie?

  • aristath

    Hello there @Autocreative,
    I have just posted on that other thread requesting that @Tobias uploads the plugin somewhere where users can get it and use it.

    An alternative would be to simply write your own Shipping gateway!
    If you take a look at the already existing ones it's not hard to do...

    As for making the already existing system more flexible, how would you imagine it? We are open to suggestions, so if you have any ideas on how to improve the system we're all ears!

    I hope that helps!

    Cheers,
    Ari.

  • Autocreative

    Well, I'm a business person with a strong web-design & front-end and e-marketing background (almost 15 years), so "not hard" when it comes to back-end stuff is different for me and you :slight_smile: I used to build small and large web apps (e-commerce sites included) from scratch (with my back-end developers) and I never really liked CMS-es due to their limitations, but sometimes you have to deal with them and / or go for them and this is one of those moments.

    I'm just starting to build my own e-commerce chain so I'm testing WMPU out on one of my clients because of its WP, Multisite and BuddyPress integration, which could save us a lot of time in our big project, so it's a concious quality vs time decision.

    Having said that, I'm surely gonna provide some constructive feedback later on 'cause I really think I'm gonna stick with your solutions even though I get a little frustrated over small things like this issue here. My developer will take care of things like that later on.

    As for now all I can say is: be as flexible as you can when it comes to ESSENTIALS.

    Shipping IS an essential e-commerce element. Just like taxes, product categories, etc. it may vary a lot from business to business. I'm not gonna tell you how exactly it should be served. All I know as a friend of online shops owners and as an upcoming owner of at least a few in the nearest future is that I need to be able to define stuff like that on my own - completely and easily. There's nothing wrong with a pre-defined division like that, but the fact that editing it is not a click away is problematic (I assume you want MarketPress to be "the most powerful" not just among WordPress solutions).

    I had a misfortune of working with Magento once. This CMS is a disaster in general, but I have to admit - the amount of stuff you can define on your own in the admin panel is really impressive. Cart rules, taxes, coupons, shipping, product groups... I wished you guys had a similar approach, because these things are CRUCIAL. Also, it's not something you set once and voila. There are many marketing strategies you can apply toying with this stuff altogether, but you really can't if they're arbitrarily imposed like that. Playing with the code every time is not an option. There has to be an easy UI for that. One day you ship one way, the next day you sign a contract with a foreign manufacturer and one group of products get totally different set of rules, law changes, you switch courier services or add another and so on and so on...And it's all related to each other and the marketing.

    Tobias figured his own way of handling this with his plugin (or so it seems), so I'm sure you can as well.

    I really believe MarketPress can be a supreme e-commerce solution, that's why I've chosen it you after A DEEP HARD LOOK on every solution on the market, It just needs to be business-aware a little more.

    Take a look around at some of the best e-commerce sites out there, see what features they've got. Hire some e-commerce guru to tell you what exactly is needed. Look at other CMS-es and steal the shit out of what's best in them. Talk to your clients and LISTEN (I saw tons of threads like this over the past two years and shipping is still problematic to many, these threads keep popping out and you still tell people to hire someone to hardcode the change they want instead of just giving them the tool they truly need :slight_smile:

    Another example: related products. I don't remember the last time I saw a shop that doesn't have that, yet there's no (simple) way of displaying them in MarketPress, even though it's such a common and good practice.

    I'm probably not gonna ask you about these things in the future because, again, my friend will take care of that for me. I'm just saying he shouldn't realy need doing so when it comes to such basics. That would allow him to concentrate on more important tasks like database optimization, security and so on (time is a precious resource).

    Bah.. enough for today :slight_smile: Thanks for your feedback and sorry for my English, which I'm sure is faulty at times, but I'm kind of in a hurry and I'm not a native speaker.

    Kind regards,
    Luke

  • Aaron

    Thank you for the feedback @Autocreative!

    When creating MP we were setting out to make something simple that just works for basic ecommerce in a WP site. The competition was bloated and buggy.

    As more and more are needing it for more advanced uses we have been adding more features and flexibility. It's a tough balance to strike. Solutions like Magento and similar are incredibly powerful, we'll never catch up with that (and don't want to). Most importantly they are too complex for most user's to figure out. So we are pretty selective about what we add to core.

  • Autocreative

    @Aaron

    I've chosen you guys because of this approach. The fact that you want to keep things simple, clean, well-written, fast and so on make me - as a developer myself - really appreciate that. I know my developer will be much less pissed about messing with your code that he'd be with other CMS-es. But that's just one side of the coin.

    As a businessman, on the other hand, I care about stuff like time, consumer satisfaction, flexibility, adaptability etc. and having the basic functionality in place is crucial for me. Probably even more than prefectly written code, because it's easier to fix bugs that write entire plugins for stuff that should be there in the first place. So while I see nothing wrong with keeping the core simple, the problem is:

    There is a CORE but there is no MORE.

    "There´s a WPMU DEV plugin for everything my clients can dream up" *

    * except for MarketPress

    I hope you get my point. Keep your plugin simple - great, but why haven't you developed anything beyond that? Look at WooCommerce. They have a plugin like that and it doesn't look too complex for me at all. Just table-rate where I can define my own rules including countries (which you've somehow missed as if it was unimportant). If they had multisite integration we'd never have that conversation, regardless of what you and I think of the quality of their code or whatever.

    On a side note, the one client for whom I've built a Magento shop is completely tech-illiterate, yet he never asked about anything once I've shown him what's where and I believe he's no exception since this messy CMS remains very popular. Business owners are not idiots, don't worry about giving them that little extra button or two.

    2) ESSENTIALS have to be there no matter what

    I'm really impressed by all of your plugins but none of them is really gonna do any good if I can't get the most basic functionality (like shipping) to work. There is stuff that you may totally skip which other CMS-es are full of, sure, but there are ESSENTIALS e-businesses need to be able to easily configure and change as they please.

    I feel completely stevejobsed not being given an option to simply change the in-country / EU / international. This has nothing to do with keeping things simple from your perspective and you're never gonna sell this argument to me 'cause I designed e-commerce sites from scratch in the past. If you design for a world-wide audience, for thousands of businesses potentially, you can't just arbitraly set something like that in stone. It's just a mistake. Misunderstanding of what shop owners need / how e-commerce works. This may have something to do with living in one country covering the whole continent, but believe me - things are not as simple for everybody (j/k). You might have not met "enough" clients like me to care, but that's probably because no developer choses your CMS for them in the first place when they realize something that basic can't be changed with a click.

    Keeping things simple for cutomers / other developers is a matter of creating a good UI, not cutting or limiting essential features / deciding for us what's better. MarketPress is really just a few overall usability improvements / functionalities away from being awesome and I think I've mentioned them all in my previous posts. Just let me decide for myself how to run my own business, don't make the most important variables fixed / limited like that.

    Think about it. WooCommerce have and yet somehow you're supposedly "The easiest to use, best designed and most powerful ecommerce / shopping cart plugin available for WordPress today – guaranteed."

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