Membership setting Regular Recurring Payment on finit membership

Hi, I've got v3.0 of the membership plugin on a client site.

We have multiple subscription types set at 1 year finite levels.

Payments go through successfully (PayPal only), but they are being sent as "Regular Recurring Payment", then a second transaction is immediately sent by the site cancelling the recurring payment so PayPal doesn't bill the end user again in one year.

This second transaction cancelling the recurring payment is causing a lot of confusion for the client's members.

I did upgrade to the latest 3.02 membership plugin with the same issue.

Any thoughts on how to change this to a one time transaction?

Thanks in advance.

  • aecnu
    • WP Unicorn

    Greetings kaganwine,

    Thank you for bringing this significant issue to light.

    I believe this action is being caused by the finite option which basically says that after a certain amount of time the Membership ends.

    I believe the correct setting without knowing more about it and for less confusion for your members would be one of the other two indefinite or lastly I would think serial.

    The reason serial is the last choice is because it basically states renewed at the same level hopefully not cancelling the subscription but we will not know for sure until it is tested.

    Whereas with indefinite there seems absolutely no reason to cancel the subscription whatsoever since it says they remain on that subscription indefinitely.

    So bottom line is I think they should be set at one of these other subscriptions and you should then be all right with my first choice being indefinite to stop the subscription churn.

    Thank you for being a WPMU Dev Member!

    Cheers, Joe

  • xod Media
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    Thanks for the reply.

    With over 250 members, it won't be easy to keep control / track of peoples memberships by changing it to the options you suggested.

    Out of curiosity, I did change them with the same issue happening. You'll see the screen shot continues to add the recurring billing line. membership V3.0 still (v3.2 requires us to make some changes to the display.)

    One of the memberships I set to serial. It kept the days selector so I selected 1 day.

    Another membership I set to indefinite. It, as well, kept the days selector, so I selected 2 days.

    I'll check the sandbox over the next two days and see if it charges the account again.

    Can somebody else tell me if they have "Recurring Payment.." display in their PayPal?

    Thanks.

  • BusinessOnlinePh
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    Ack that is a nasty issue. On my install, nothing is working. Does this issue exist in the latest version? I will be following this thread to see what happens.

    Was this marked as resolved by the customer? It seems that they still have questions and I too would like to know if this is still a problem as I want ALL of my paid members to be set to recurring billing and never have it cancelled unless the customer cancels it.

  • xod Media
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    I did see this as an issue in the latest version as well, but I have a few customizations and I wanted to see if other users could tell me if it was me, or it's happening in their copies as well.

    It wasn't resolved by me (at least I don't think so).

  • BusinessOnlinePh
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    Someone marked it as resolved. I actually opened it again as I did not think it had an answer. This is a critical issue as it would mean that customers on monthly plans would need to manually make a payment every month. Statistically, that would result in a 75% reduction in income as only 25% would manually renew.

    Ideally, they should not be cancelling the subscription if it needs to renew. If it is a one off payment, then surely it should act as one instead of making a subscription payment and then cancelling.

    It has been 3 days since my reply and 2 days since yours. I would have expect someone from support to have added a reply. Maybe they just missed it.

  • aecnu
    • WP Unicorn

    Greetings kaganwine,

    Thank you for the additional input and the screen shots, it is greatly appreciated.

    I will go ahead and see if I can get the lead developer in here with his invaluable insight into the Membership plugin to offer his advice/advise as to what can be done regarding this issue.

    Though this may take longer then a normal ticket, I will try to get him in here asap.

    Cheers, Joe

  • babbsela
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    I just wanted to pop in and say that I have Membership running with a dripped content subscription on a single payment, and have not had a problem (yet) with the site cancelling payment.

    I don't see this mentioned, so I apologize if you've already tried it.

    Do you have the payment method set up as PayPal Express Gateway? This may be your problem. If it's a one-year subscription, and they won't be billed automatically for renewing in one year, you should set it up with PayPal Single Payments Gateway.

  • aecnu
    • WP Unicorn

    Greetings babbsela,

    Great point and thank you for your input.

    I myself never experienced this anomaly kaganwine is reporting because I indeed use the PayPal Single Payments Gateway.

    I choose this method because those paying with Credit Cards without a PayPal account do not seem to have any issues either.

    Cheers, Joe

  • xod Media
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    Thanks for the input and the escalation.

    babbsela , you may have a point. We are set up as PayPal Express Gateway, which maybe it doesn't allow recurring payments.

    Just to clarify, the plugin is not deleting payments, it is creating and deleting future subscriptions (regardless of the membership type; serial, infinite or finite)

  • babbsela
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    @kagwine: PayPal Express Gateway does allow recurring payments. This links to the page where they talk about recurring payments on their website.

    I went into PayPal and set up a sample subscription with payments that recur once per year. I had no problems with it. It set up, I purchased a subscription, and didn't get the second email you describe.

    I looked through their Payments Standard Integration guide, and the one thing of note is this: If the customer is signed up for recurring payments, they must have a PayPal account..

    Could this be the root of your problem? Do the subscribers have PayPal accounts?

  • babbsela
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    BTW, forgot to answer an earlier question of yours: I have clients set up on subscriptions (on sites that don't use Membership) and each payment shows up as "Recurring Payment" in my report.

    "Subscriptions" in PayPal terminology indicates that you are setting up recurring payments.

    On my membership site, I've set up the Single Payments Gateway for a one-time payment for a subscription that lasts 6 months. I haven't had PayPal send any of the subscription cancellation emails you've received, and the subscribers are all active.

    Reading back through the thread, I'm not clear whether you've set up subscriptions to renew at one year intervals (recurring payment) or a single payment for a subscription that ends in one year.

    If you only want them to make one payment, changing to PayPal Single Payments Gateway should fix your problem. It should have no bearing on how long the subscription lasts, one day, two days or forever.

    If you do try this, please let me know if it worked.

  • xod Media
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    Thanks for your involvement and sorry for my late reply.

    I don't have any set up as recurring payments. They are finite and to expire after one year.

    It's the program that's submitted them as a recurring payment and then cancelling the recurring payment right after.

  • Mark
    • The Incredible Code Injector

    @babbsela, Can you elaborate? Take this scenario: Customers who don't have a PayPal account use their credit card at PayPal's checkout to pay for a monthly recurring membership. Will their credit cards be automatically charged monthly? Please tell me yes.

    Sorry for the side discussion, but this is important!

  • aecnu
    • WP Unicorn

    Greetings Everyone,

    Though we are indeed waiting for clarification form the lead developer on what is going on with the original post by kaganwine, I want to mention how happy it is for me to see so much community effort to help and clarify things for one another and how great it is to be part of it - I sincerely thank each and everyone of you for that.

    Cheers, Joe

  • Mark
    • The Incredible Code Injector

    @babbsela, thanks very much for that. I was relieved to read that it's not too much of an inconvenience for someone to sign up with PayPal in order to subscribe with a credit card. I will have a lot of international customers, some of whom are not familiar with PayPal.

    @aecnu, Right back at ya, Joe!

  • Barry
    • DEV MAN’s Mascot

    Ok, sorry about this but can we start from the top again, as I think this thread goes off at a tangent part way down and has a bit of mis-information in it.

    Payments go through successfully (PayPal only), but they are being sent as "Regular Recurring Payment", then a second transaction is immediately sent by the site cancelling the recurring payment so PayPal doesn't bill the end user again in one year.

    This second transaction cancelling the recurring payment is causing a lot of confusion for the client's members.

    Can you show me your settings for the subscription involved (maybe a screenshot)? Does the subscription only have the single element set to indefinite?

    The PayPal express gateway uses subscriptions to set up the payments. If it is a single finite or indefinite level, then it sets the form up so that the subscription only takes a single payment and then paypal doesn't take another payment (whether it just stops or expires the subscription is the paypal systems decision and is based on how paypal handle subscriptions).

    The PayPal single gateway uses single transactions with paypal, so doesn't attempt to set up a subscription.

  • xod Media
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    Thanks Barry, I appreciate your input.

    The memberships are all set to finite for a period of one year. The payment gateway is going through PayPal Express.

    The site has many subscriptions levels, all single level.

    I don't want to post any screen shots of these pages to protect the client.

    I can give you control panel or access to the admin if you think it would be easier than playing tag. Shoot me an email and I'll reply back with the details.

    Thanks Barry.

  • aecnu
    • WP Unicorn

    Greetings kaganwine,

    Thank you for your additional input, it is greatly appreciated.

    I am not sure that Barry has access to your email address, I know as a matter of practice that the support staff does not have casual access to this information.

    Therefore please post it here somewhat obscured so that the spam bots do not pick it up.

    Cheers, Joe

  • Kimberly
    • Champion of Loops

    Hi!

    Just checking in :slight_smile:

    I'm guessing that because we haven't heard back from you that you've got your issue worked out or that we have reached the end of our convo here. If you are still having problems or need any other answers on this particular topic please feel free to come back to this thread at anytime. Just be sure to mark it Not Resolved so we don't miss it!

    This ticket is only being Resolved due to lack of activity. It is by no means an action to avoid, brush off or minimize your issue. We are ready and here if you want to re-open at any time and I apologize in advance for any lack of communication if this ticket is being closed in error.

    Thanks for being part of the WPMU DEV Community!

    Best,
    Kimberly

  • Kimberly
    • Champion of Loops

    @kaganwine I hope everything is OK, I have two young children so i know how quickly your priorities can change, family first!

    Can we see about getting back on track and summarizing the issue since it seems there's been alot of time and conversation since the first post :slight_smile: I am finding it difficult to pick out the exact issue you are trying to solve.

    The more detailed info we can give Barry when we call him back here the better!

    Looking forward to hearing from you!

  • xod Media
    • Site Builder, Child of Zeus

    Sorry for my absence folks. The issue is still there as outlined in my initial posts and screen shots.

    I hope my initial posts are enough. If not I'll need to put this on the back burner for 6 weeks when the club closes for the winter. At that time I'll update the membership plugin with the latest version.

    Let me know please. Thanks for your involvement.

  • Kimberly
    • Champion of Loops

    so you have a finite subscriptoin for one year that you DO or DO NOT set as a recurring payment?

    That is what I cannot find above, I see there is an issue with what you have happening with the two payments being sent and cancelled, but what are you looking to charge? once or recurring?

    Do you have anything set besides the default on the communication tab?

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