Slow saving

Hi, i noticed that my admin dashboard is saving changes very slow. i don't know which plugin is causing it.

  • Adam Czajczyk

    Hi Ian Andrew Macalisang

    I hope you're well today and thank you for your question!

    Are these "any changes" or in some specific parts of admin back-end only, like e.g. saving new/edited posts or saving some plugin's settings? Let me know please.

    I'd also like to take a closer look at this so would you please enable support access to your site for me? To do this, please go to the "WPMU DEV -> Support" page in your site's back-end and click on "Grant Support Access" button there, then let me know here.

    Best regards,
    Adam

  • Adam Czajczyk

    Hello Ian Andrew Macalisang

    Thank you for enabling support access.

    I have checked your site and the configuration looks quite fine and clean. I "wandered around" a bit in back-end, visiting different pages of it and also adding, editing and removing some test post and it all worked really nice. The back-end was loading pretty fast, everything was saved as expected, without any unreasonable delays.

    You mentioned in your initial post that it's "slow saving" but I didn't notice anything like that when I was checking the site just a moment ago. Maybe I should try some specific steps then to see that?

    If yes, let me know what exactly should I do there and I'll access the site and test it again to see what and why is happening.

    Kind regards,
    Adam

  • Adam Czajczyk

    Hello Ian Andrew Macalisang

    Thank you for additional information!

    I didn't check with Elementor editing, indeed. I would check it now but it seems that the support access to your site has already expired (it's time valid). Would you please enable it again? In case it is still showing that it is active on your end, please revoke it and then grant again and let me know here when it's done.

    As for the other question. These are optimized resources stored on WPMU DEV CDN. They are not cached by HB Page Cache and the point of CDN is to actually speed up and optimize serving resources. That usually gives a really nice boost to the site but there are exceptions some times so you might want to test it. In Hummingbird -> Asset Optimization you can disable WPMU DEV CDN and then after clearing and rebuilding cache those optimized assets would be stored locally and should also be included in cache. You can then test which way is better for your site's performance and stick to that (WPMU DEV CDN option can be enabled/disabled at any time without the need to re-set Asset Optimization configuration).

    Best regards,
    Adam

  • Adam Czajczyk

    Hello Ian Andrew Macalisang

    Thanks for re-granting access.

    I actually didn't notice that before (and I'm sorry for that) but there's in fact a server-side cache. This, plus the way Elementor works (mostly if it comes to generating CSS resources), plus Hummingbird's Page Caching - that all taken together might indeed cause some unexpected issues.

    The site itself seems to be quite well set up. What I would try tho would be this: turning off Endurance Cache by going to "Settings" page of the main site and there in "General" settings options you can set "Cache Level" to "Off".

    Then re-generate Hummingbird's "Asset Optimization" and once that done, try enabling Page Caching again and see if that speeds up the site and if it still affects Elementor. Then, depending on results, you might also try switching Elementor's "CSS Print Method" on "Elementor -> Settings -> Advanced" page. Just please note that after that you would need to again re-check Asset Optimization in Hummingbird and clear HB cache.

    I'm afraid that's something that you would need to check "experimentally" but it's definitely worth giving a shot, especially that there should not be two "full page caches" enabled as they may interfere and it actually could already be "messing up" a bit.

    Give it a try, please, and let me know about results.

    Kind regards,
    Adam

  • andyware012

    i'm quite satisfied with the speed at the moment leaving HB page cache off and using the server-side caching at the moment. however, i'm confused with hummingbird speed test showing a very low score but when i tried opening the sites in my multisite network it's opening fast even in different computers my server response time is also fine as i have tried it on different computer that opened my site first time.

  • Adam Czajczyk

    Hello @andyware!

    The "Hummingbird speed test" results would be pretty much the same as Google PageSpeed test results for "desktop".

    However, interpretation of that score is a common confusion. They are not "speed" scores and the result you get does not rate your speed site. In fact, I've seen many sites with quite a low score but with blazing fast loading speed but also lot of sites with more than satisfactory grade but still loading with a speed of an old steam cruiser :slight_smile:

    The point is: that score doesn't show "the speed of the site" but it shows - and grades - what "tweaks"/"improvements" that could possibly speed up the site are applied. And the consequence of that is that:

    - sometimes those suggested improvements do give significant "speed boost"
    - sometimes they don't bring any change
    - sometimes the changes is "unnoticeable"

    That's because there's quite a lot of other factors as well, that are often also difficult - if not impossible - to asses from outside :slight_smile:

    The bottom line is: if the speed is relatively good and satisfactory for you, the "low grade" isn't something that needs to be addressed at all costs. While the site performance - mostly loading speed - surely affect user experience and can affect site's ranking in Search Engines, the score itself is not a factor taken into account. In most cases, the grade (HB/PageSpeed) does actually "synchronize" with the site performance but it's not a rule and the number doesn't reflect the speed but rather the "level of the possible optimization" - which is expected to affect speed but may or may not do it, depending on a particular setup.

    I hope that makes some sense to you :slight_smile:

    Best regards,
    Adam

  • andyware012

    Thank you for your detailed answer Adam. I'm making WPMU Dev plugins as my core plugins right now and everything is working smoothly from head to toe. I have tried each plugins and they are working flawlessly with each other. It's just very confusing for me because in Pingdom i scored 98% but in google pagespeed on 70%+ i think i will be too conscious with this pagespeed scores right now since i think i have optimized my multisite with your plugins only.

    • Adam Czajczyk

      Hi Ian Andrew Macalisang

      I can understand that concern but, like I mentioned, the PageSpeed Insights/Hummingbird Performance tests do not measure actual speed of the site. They only give "tips" on what could possibly be done to possibly speed up the site.

      So, you can try to improve that PageSpeed/HB score and possibly the speed the way I described in one of my previous posts here:

      https://premium.wpmudev.org/forums/topic/slow-saving#post-1333199

      On the other hand, it's virtually impossible to make any "predictions" about results. There's too many "unknowns" and other "factors beyond control" involved so I'm afraid it's always a matter of actually testing how certain settings/configuration works.

      Taking that into account, I would say: if you are satisfied with current site performance, just ignore the score; if you are not and/or you still got time and will to experiment, give it a try (though it might help but I can't promise that).

      One thing, however, that I would strongly recommend would be to implement some CDN in front of the site, if you don't have it yet. By "CDN" I mean an external 3rd-party solution such as for example CloudFlare. That's usually a nice stability/performance (and additionally - security as well) boost :slight_smile:

      Best regards,
      Adam

  • Adam Czajczyk

    Hello @andyware!

    I'm afraid there's no integration with Pro Sites currently. That would mean that either that would have to be custom coded based on CloudFlare API or those sub-sites would have to be manually added to CloudFlare currently.

    However, I think that would be a useful integration.

    I understand that you would want that to automatically add a site to CloudFlare whenever a user creates a new site on your Multisite. Do you think that this should rather use some "central CF integration" (so you as an admin integrate your account) or rather allow users to add their own CF integrations there? Should that be "obligatory" or rather as a sort of a feature - that you could e.g. make a part of some "package" and some not? I'd love to hear you opinion on this :slight_smile:

    Best regards,
    Adam

  • andyware012

    As for my opinion i would rather use central CF integration. since not all users are really into website optimizations they just want a website that loads fast and for a multisite with Pro Sites it is already considered as a managed wordpress which means i get to manage the security of the users and integrating them to cloudflare is already the admin job(which is better if it is automated). I know there will be a problem when the user maps a custom domain but i can just put a guide for them to use my cf nameserver and tell them to create an A Record to my main server ip and i can manually add their domain in cpanel. But for any free accounts that is using a subdomain.mysite.com i think it's better to make it automatically create a cname on my cf account.

  • Adam Czajczyk

    Hello Ian Andrew Macalisang,

    Thanks for that feedback!

    I wasn't aware of the TT Cloudflare WPMU plugin but I just checked it and it seems it was abandoned by its creators, indeed. I'm not surprised that it's not working anymore as 4 years in IT - any area of it - is like "eternity" and for sure CF API is nothing like it was back than :slight_smile:

    Actually, we already do have some level of CloudFlare integration because you can, in fact, integrate CF with your site if you're running Hummingbird on it. That's, however, a different kind of integration - it's related to Asset Optimization and Caching rather than anything else and won't create any records in CF. But, my point is, we have already worked with their API and we got some "foundation" for such connection. So that's a good news here.

    As for the integration. Yeah, I believe it would be better, indeed, to make it some sort of "central" integration so a Mulsite super-admin would set up all the necessary API details and other basic settings and configuration of the main domain and CloudFlare and then the user signing up for the site could just decide whether CF should be also enabled for that new site or not.

    If it was integrated with Pro Sites, it could probably even be possible to make it a "feature" so you could decide whether it's available for all Pro Sites levels or only selected ones. For example: you got "Basic" level and "VIP" level and those that select "Basic" don't have CF included while those that select more expensive "VIP" do have it included :slight_smile:

    I mean, that's the way I would like to see it, if we were about to add it. I'm not sure though how it currently is with adding external domains. I think regardless of the API it wouldn't work with a free CF plan as they don't allow multiple top level domains with it. At least they were not when I last checked it :slight_smile: They do, however, allow it with their premium plans so if only API is allowing adding new sites now, that could even make sense as with Pro Sites integration you could charge your users for using CloudFlare and that could (at least partially) cover the cost of the premium CF plan.

    Actually, I just looked at the CF API docs and if I correctly understand it, there is a full set of tools to create and mange zones and set up DNSes so, if I'm not mistaken, it should even be possible currently to add new domains. And, if you are using a dedicated IP for your site, only an A record is necessary on CF and there's no need to add the domain to your server to use Domain Mapping, so that could provide a "total automation" :slight_smile:

    That's just a couple of my thoughts but does it make sense to you? I'm honestly saying that I'm not promising anything yet, at this stage, but I'd like to get as much feedback and ideas on that as possible so we could discuss this further with developers and project managers to come up with something really useful :slight_smile:

    So, if you have any additional ideas or some "thoughts about my thoughs", I'm eager to read about them :slight_smile:

    Have a great day!
    Adam

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