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Theme Edits Not Showing on Site again

I had this same problem previously and asked a question in the forum:

https://premium.wpmudev.org/forums/topic/seeing-two-different-version-of-the-same-theme

Through the above, I was told that you cannot start editing in Builder and Switch to Upfront, or the system will get quite confused.

After all of that, I started an entirely NEW theme from scratch and began working on it solely in Builder. Then, once again changes I was making in Builder were not appearing on the live site (logged out). I realized that it was showing only what can be seen when I look at the site in Upfront. I imagine it's possible that when switching to the live site from admin, it went to Upfront instead since that can happen with some of the edit and customization links in WP if you don't go through Builder, however, I tried to be very cognizant of this possibility and *thought* I always tried to make sure I was in Builder.

Additionally, the top menu even shows one thing while in Upfront, and something else on the live site -- the menu is no longer nested with dropdowns, but all menu items are listed in one list.

Here's the thing: it shouldn't be this squirrely. The system should either work either way, in Upfront or Builder, or have safeguards against getting one getting screwed up with the other. It seems like a great system, and I've spent a good amount of time going through the manuals and the following the Upfront tutorial (https://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/upfront-1-0/), but I can't seem to get past go with this happening all the time.

Or, am I entirely missing something--am I not supposed to do certain things in Builder--does only the basic theme construction happen there, while the rest should be done in Upfront editor? If so, nowhere do I see this well explained. Honestly, I am not even sure what the difference between the two things IS other than Builder will allow you to export the theme easily. I HAVE noticed a few different things from one to the other, like Global Theme CSS selection does not appear in Builder, but without sitting and comparing everything directly, they seem virtually identical.

I really SO want to use this system and become proficient, but this is really getting frustrating.

I don't even know what support is supposed to do about it. It seems like I'm just stuck again and have to start over AGAIN, unless someone can tell me what it is I'm doing wrong, or fix what appears to me to be a problem with the system--as I said, it shouldn't be this easy for this to get all scrambled up. I can't be the only one having this problem.

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  • Nithin

    Hi Eric LaVigne,

    Hope you are doing good today. :slight_smile:

    Sorry to know that you are having issues with your website, as mentioned in your given thread, if you are considering theme development, you'll have to make sure that you make use of Upfront Builder. I do agree that both the Upfront Builder, and Editor do look identical, but both are used for different purposes. For eg Fixer theme is made using Upfront builder that includes all the styles, and designs, and once done, the end users, can customize the new theme using Upfront editor according , the end users don't have to make use of builder at all.

    The system should either work either way, in Upfront or Builder, or have safeguards against getting one getting screwed up with the other.

    You can reset the theme, if there are any screw ups, as mentioned in your given thread link.

    I entirely missing something--am I not supposed to do certain things in Builder--does only the basic theme construction happen there, while the rest should be done in Upfront editor?

    No, if you are considering developing a theme, you'll have to make use of builder for everything ie styling, design, layout etc. All the changes you make through the Upfront editor will be saved in your database. So, suppose if you are shipping the theme to a user, with only changes made on an Upfront Editor, they won't see any styles, or changes if they install your theme, because the settings are saved in your database.

    Additionally, the top menu even shows one thing while in Upfront, and something else on the live site -- the menu is no longer nested with dropdowns, but all menu items are listed in one list.

    To have a clear idea regarding this, and we would like to check your website, and it's configuration. Could you please enable support access, so that we could give a closer look. Builder does have Global theme CSS section too, so I'm not sure what you're missing, until we could check your system.

    I could also see, you are using Upfront Builder version 1.1, there's already a new version 1.1.2 available, please update the plugin through the dashboard.

    You can grant access from WPMU DEV > Support > Support Access > Grant Access, or check this manual: http://premium.wpmudev.org/manuals/wpmu-dev-dashboard-enabling-staff-login/

    Please let us know once you enable access, so that we could get this sorted. Have a nice weekend. :slight_smile:

    Kind Regards,
    Nithin

  • Eric LaVigne

    Thanks for the answers, they're helping me further understand the uses of and differences between Upfront and Builder. The point about developing a theme for export to another site is a crucial point. It did not occur to me that an Upfront theme is NOT exportable just as a theme. I'm as new to Upfront as I am Builder, diving in at the same time, which probably has added to the confusion, as I've not previously done a lot of theme work with Upfront, so I don't fully know what IT is capable of and its limitations.

    The theme I am working on, however, is being done directly on a development site that already has all the client's data, so I wouldn't necessarily need to export.

    I've been doing my own side by side comparisons and testing as well. I now see clear differences between Upfront and Builder. Two areas of major distinction: Upfront has no ability to create layouts (aka template pages), and Builder does not have a way to create Posts and Pages (or am I still missing something?). These differences show more clearly how Builder is geared towards theme development and Upfront is to be used not only for individual site design, but also everyday content management.

    What I want to understand clearly is this, because it reflects the problem I've been having: if Builder and Upfront are incompatible, such that if you start editing a site in Upfont, you can no longer edit it in Builder, doesn't this mean that a template cannot be modified at a later date if doing any editing in Upfront causes it to not be editable in Builder? How often does someone create a template perfectly, with every layout needed etc., the first time, and never needs modifying later?

    The question then becomes, how can a template be modified at a later date if doing any editing in Upfront causes it to not be editable in Builder?

    Can the template be exported, edited on a different site, and then re-imported? But then, how would it ever pick up the changes and pages that had been made to the site in the Upfront?

  • Rupok

    Hi Eric LaVigne,

    I'm so sorry for your confusion. Let me describe in a simpler way.

    Suppose you are creating a theme for your site (not necessarily in Upfront). What do you add in your theme? You add design and some basic elements. For example, when you create a template design for the single page, you may add a sidebar, you may add a header image to be shown in all page headers. You also create single post templates and add your own design. That's how you complete your theme.

    Then when someone adds that theme on their site, they create pages and automatically get the design (header image, sidebar etc.) you created. Now when they add content on his site pages, he adds more images texts etc. But those are content, not part of theme design.

    So there is no way for him to export his theme with all those content normally. I believe, we are on the same page until this.

    Now you (the developer of the theme), decide that you will add two sidebars on single page design. So you edit your single page template of your theme and add two sidebars on your design and release an update of your theme.

    When your user updates that theme on his site, he gets the new design for his pages.

    Now let me correlate this scenario with Upfront Editor and Builder. As the developer, you will be using Upfront Builder to design single page/post. You can add images, maps and all other elements for page/post templates. These designs will be included in your theme. So when your user will activate your theme and create a page, he will get the design you made while developing with Builder. Now as a user, he will use Upfront Editor to add content on his page. But he won't be able to export that theme with those content.

    Suppose, after releasing the first version, you want to change your single page design. So you can easily change the layout for the single page and customize the design as you want with Builder and then release it. Your user then updates the theme with the latest release on his site, and all his pages will get the new page design.

    I believe all these make sense to you. You said "how can a template be modified at a later date if doing any editing in Upfront causes it to not be editable in Builder?", but Upfront doesn't cause it not be editable in Builder. You can always edit your template files with Builder. So suppose you are done with designing your theme templates. And then added content on your site with Upfront. Now you want to edit your template files with the new design, you can always edit those page/post templates in Builder again.

    Then you asked "Can the template be exported, edited on a different site, and then re-imported? But then, how would it ever pick up the changes and pages that had been made to the site in the Upfront?"
    As I said above, everything added to your site with Upfront Editor is content, not a part of the theme. Normally when you create pages with text images etc. on your site, you can't add those pages/posts with your theme. Theme design elements and content elements are totally different. The theme can be exported, moved to another site, but content cannot be shipped with themes. They have to be migrated.

    That's why anything added in another site with Upfront Editor won't be available when you re-import. But if you edit anything in that theme with Upfront Builder in another site, and then re-import, you will get all changes in your site.

    I hope these will clarify your confusion. Please let us know if you still have any confusion. We will be glad to help further.

    Have a nice day. Cheers!
    Rupok